Room Conversation
December 21, 1970, Surat
Prabhupāda: So your father has got substance. And why the ultimate Godhead is not a person? What is this philosophy? If God is father, He must be person. How you can think of imperson? Eh?
Devotee (1): Ah . . .
Prabhupāda: He is impuzzled.
Devotee (1): I am puzzled.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Just try to understand this philosophy. If when I see practically my father has got head, his father has got head, his father has got head, head, head, head . . . go on. And the ultimate father, why he has no head? What this poor person, gentleman, has done that he has no head? (laughter) You see?
This is . . . this nonsense theory is going on that, “God has no head. God has no legs. God has no hand.” Imperson means He has no head, no leg, no . . . that means . . . and somebody says, “He is dead,” and “void.”
Revatinandana: They’re trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. They’re trying to kill Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That’s all. That is their business. Rākṣasa, asura, miscreants, rogues, fools, rascals—that is their business. Envious. Because they are . . . if I say that, “You have no eyes,” that means indirectly I say that, “You are blind.” If I say that, “You have no leg,” indirectly I say: “You are lame.” In this way, when I deny your senses, that means I am calling God by ill names that, “You are blind. You are lame. You are headless. You are rascal,” like that. And that is their prayer. Calling God by ill names, that is their prayer. What do you think, Girirāja?
Girirāja: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say: “O my Lord, You have no leg, You have no hand, You have no eyes,” that means “You are blind, You are lame, You are headless,” (laughter) “You have no sense”—”You are nonsense.” So this is prayer. This is their prayer. So we have to fight vigorously these rascal impersonalists and voidists. When I was talking, somebody left the meeting in the morning. Yes. That means he could not tolerate (laughs) all these designations—”rascal,” “miscreants,” “lowest of the mankind.” Yes.
Devotee (2): In this mantra of Śrī Upaniṣad, Mantra Twelve:
- andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti
- ye ‘sambhūtim upāsate
- tato bhūya iva te tamo
- ya u sambhūtyāṁ ratāḥ
It says: “Those engaged in worship of the demigods enter the darkest region of ignorance, and still more do the worshipers of the Absolute.” But this means that the impersonalists, “those who are worshiping Absolute”?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Then why is it seen that they are making spiritual advancement? Why they become . . .
Prabhupāda: No, they don’t make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don’t you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa, he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say: “Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men.” That’s it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that “Nārāyaṇa has become daridra.” He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.
Revatīnandana: What is that word?
Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor.
Revatīnandana: Poor.
Prabhupāda: Poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that, “When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra.” These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?
Revatīnandana: So that is service in the mode of ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Revatīnandana: That is service in the mode of ignorance, according to Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients, the patients are increasing, hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temple, increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is . . . welfare department? The expenditure is increasing.
Revatīnandana: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . all the time.
Prabhupāda: That means the social structure is very bad. Otherwise, natural procedure is that everyone should be self-independent. But why State has to give them help? That’s not good. You may be . . . just like a son may be very rich man’s son, but if the father provides him only, then he’s a useless son. Is it not? If the father has to provide him money for his maintenance, then that son is useless son. That is not a good certificate. Although you may be very much proud that “I am maintaining my so many sons,” why you should maintain? Let them be self-supported.
Devotee: But what can the State do? Should the State just leave the people alone?
Prabhupāda: No. They should make the citizens so nicely developed in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness that they should be self-dependent, self-satisfied. That is the ideal of civilization.
Devotee: But America is so far from that.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is not advancement, although they are very much proud of advancement. This is not sign of advancement. According to Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate (BG 6.22): “If one is situated in such a position that even in the greatest, gravest type of dangerous position he is not agitated—he is not agitated—that is the real happiness.” Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. These are the words, yasmin sthite: “Situated in such a position that although he is facing greatest danger, he is not agitated.”
Tagged: ISKCON