Italian President Meloni
President Meloni: The balance sheet of the European Council is chiaroscuro, in the sense that we are very satisfied with the work that has been done on enlargement, with an objective that many of us considered difficult to achieve in this European Council which is that of the start of negotiations, particularly with Ukraine. But I want to say that I am also very satisfied with the balance that there was with the Western Balkans where Italy was one of the nations that played a leading role in making progress particularly with Bosnia and Herzegovina, this was achieved in the conclusions of the European Council, therefore on the enlargement side a very important result.
However, we have not been able to find a solution on the revision of the multiannual budget, although in my opinion it is a solution that is within reach, I am not pessimistic about the fact that it can be reached in the next European Council. In any case, we are satisfied with the text of the negotiation draft which contains all the priorities that Italy had set, from the flexibility of existing funds, particularly on the topic of migration. There was a point in this negotiation in which nothing was foreseen for migration and now we have reached almost 10 billion euros to be spent particularly on the external dimension, therefore a great result if we manage to confirm it in the next European Council for those who they are our goals.
Middle East, there was a very in-depth discussion, it was preferred to reiterate the conclusions of the last European Council because if we had renewed those conclusions in some way, some divergences would probably have made the job difficult. In any case, we all agree that we must continue to condemn the Hamas attacks of last October 7, reiterate Israel’s right to defend itself, to do so within international norms, work on a long-term solution, two peoples in two States, we also reiterated the work on the humanitarian front that Europe can do and that Italy is doing, we gave examples of many things that you know and that I am not here to reiterate, but in the end it was preferred not to write a text on the conclusions.
While I am very happy on the migration part where a paragraph proposed by Italy has been passed in full which reiterates the work which is also summarized in the letters of Ursula von der Leyen before each European Council but which in the last councils was not included in the 27-party conclusions and which today is instead included in the conclusions of 27 which envisages work on the external dimension, the blocking of illegal immigration, the fight against traffickers, a more effective repatriation policy and the entire vision that Italy has contributed to making vision of the entire European Council.
[Inaudible question]
President Meloni : Look, it (the Stability Pact) was not the subject of the Council’s work, certainly there were discussions on the sidelines, these are days of negotiations, but the topic is formally postponed to the next Ecofin on 20 December. The positions are still quite distant, but we need to work hour after hour on this.
Question – On the budget, you said precisely that the 26-member draft is satisfactory for Italy but I also return to the Stability Pact because today Minister Giorgetti was quite critical, he said that it is unlikely there will be an agreement on Wednesday.
President Meloni: Well, I was saying, the positions are still quite distant. I don’t think it’s impossible to find an agreement today, I think that an agreement can and must be found in the end, but I couldn’t tell you that we have already found it.
Question : President, yesterday we met with Orbán, there was an initial cloud of smoke with Orbán’s exit, but then, let’s say, he returned to reiterate his theses, in short, in this meeting the role that Italy did you play and what did you think?
President Meloni : Look, regarding the role that Italy played, I did exactly what I said I would do. I think that we are much more useful when we have the ability to talk to everyone and when we look for a meeting point, because if we don’t manage to do this we won’t even be able to reach the objectives we want to achieve. And therefore you need to have the ability to mediate, to put positions together, you need to have the ability to dialogue. This allowed Italy to certainly play a leading role in the results we achieved. We did not succeed in all our intentions, but this is also why we must continue to work to achieve the other objectives we have. But I continue to believe that this is the most serious way of arriving at objectives that are useful for everyone, which are useful for the overall credibility of the European Union.
I think that particularly in the season in which we find ourselves, even in the international crises that we are facing, we must try as much as possible to unite within ourselves and not to divide ourselves further because we do nothing but weaken ourselves even more.
[Inaudible question]
President Meloni : Look, on this I frankly prefer not to go into too much detail because it is a balance that holds together, there are at least three points that are still the subject of discussion and create a different balance. In the end the balance must be assessed, so I am not of the opinion that the best way to do this negotiation is to say I want to get this and then see it canceled at another point. It’s a very complex, very technical negotiation, and in my opinion you really need to keep all avenues open until you understand what the best landing point you can get is. This is how I’m handling it. You know that I have never gone into the matter for this reason and in my opinion, since it is a very delicate issue that will involve us for several years, it is important that we manage this negotiation in the best possible way.
Question: Is the veto still an option for Italy?
President Meloni : Look, I don’t want to put it that way. I said, and I repeat, I said it in Parliament three days ago, the only thing I cannot do is give my approval to a Pact that not I, but no Italian government could respect. Because it would be unfair, because it would not be useful for us. After that I read, Mario Monti even says veto. But in short, let’s say that if we put it this way it is not a good way to seek synthesis with others. Let us try to obtain a pact that offers us the conditions to do our job seriously, because I said and repeat that we are not asking for a modification of the pact to throw money out the window, but we are asking for a modification of the pact that allows us to do what we we believe it is the right thing to do and that Europe is given as a strategy, I am talking particularly about investments, without being affected by this.
Because it would be a short-sighted strategy, but not for Italy, but for Europe which has given itself those strategies. And clearly we try to involve as many countries as possible in this.
Question : Minister Giorgetti also makes it a question of method. He says that we cannot decide on something as important as the reform of the Pact via videoconference. Do you agree?
President Meloni : No, I don’t understand.
Question : Minister Giorgetti said we cannot decide something so important in an Ecofin videoconference, we have to meet in person.
President Meloni : Well, probably yes, it would be better, maybe it’s easier to negotiate if you also have… Because look, what I’ve learned from the negotiations in these parts is that the discussions on the sidelines are much more useful than what then it is said formally in the comparison. So if you remove this possibility, that is sometimes informally you ask but if we make this proposal and build solutions on the sidelines which are then put on the table, removing this opportunity probably becomes more difficult.
Question : Was the conversation you had with Macron and Scholz, given that he was talking about talks on the sidelines, important? On what point of the topics you have addressed in recent days?
President Meloni : In reality I had a bilateral meeting with Macron, then Scholz who was sitting at the next table stopped, but at that point there were no particular dossiers. Clearly, with the French President we have discussed the issue of the Stability Pact to all the other dossiers on which we think convergence with France can be built. On the topic of the Stability Pact there are various convergences on interests that are common, so we have reviewed the main dossiers of both our bilateral work and what we do at a multilateral level.
Question: On immigration, however, how much is the pact with Albania at risk after the suspension of the Albanian Constitutional Court, is there a risk of failure of this pact? And on the Stability Pact, how long has the delay in approving the ESM ended up weakening Italy’s position, irritating its European allies?
President Meloni: No, look, on the topic of the ESM Stability Pact, I must tell you that I only see this link in the Italian debate. It certainly makes a difference for us to know what the pact we have at our disposal is, as we have always said, because the tools all come together, but there is not this dimension – how can I say, of “blackmail”, if you allow me the term – to say if you don’t do this we don’t give this. I haven’t seen it, no one has ever asked the question like that.
As far as Albania is concerned, look, I can’t say this, I hope not obviously. A risk of failure, I hope not, I’m optimistic that it won’t happen, but I can’t say what happens in a sovereign nation and I respect the decisions of a sovereign nation. We will see how it goes in the next few weeks and we will do our best, if things go well, to accelerate even more. No, for now I don’t think we need a plan B, we will look for it eventually.
[Inaudible question]
President Meloni: On the topic of resources? Yes, I think there are still plans B, we even talked about it on the sidelines, but frankly I hope it doesn’t get there. In the sense that, as you know, I have always reiterated the fact that it would not be understood to modify resources solely for Ukraine because the war impacts our societies, there are consequences, if we are not able to effectively deal with those consequences too we will also distance public support from the Ukrainian cause.
So it has always been very important for me, I have also done it in this Council, to claim and defend a package logic that serves us, that serves our citizens, that serves our nation, that serves Europe, that serves also to Ukraine. Thank you gentlemen, goodbye.